17:30 - This is a tomorrow/next week problem
I don’t code, but I do work with a lot of really shitty proprietary software. The amount of time vendors haven’t been able to fix their own shit is so high. Spent 6 hours on the phone once. Work 2.5 hours overtime for that call.
In that case though, the person helping you doesn’t have the ability to solve the problem by changing code. They have to work around the ug to try to make it work for you in its broken state and report the problem to developers to fix in the next release. It’s a more difficult problem to solve
However, she solved the more important issue that there was a post-it glued on top of the screen.
After 5PM stop looking for a fix, start looking for a stopping point and write up some notes to review when you’re fresh again.
100% stop at 5pm.
I can’t tell you the number of times stopping to eat and take a shower cleared my mind to fix it that night or the next morning after a good sleep.
Fresh eyes people!!
No. I’ve almost got it.
Just one more line bro. One more line will fix it.
Line of code… right?
Is that what we’re calling coke these days?
Surely this one last permutation…
But! My context!!!
Truthfully, it’s amazing how often the next morning, with a fresh brain, it becomes an easy fix.
After 5PM stop looking for a fix, start looking for a stopping point and write up some notes to review when you’re fresh again.
Hot Take Incomming…
No. My best successes were when I stayed on point and pushed through the fatigue and solved the problem. Taking a ‘go to bed and come back to the office fresh’ type of break would inevitably set me back, as I would have to pick up my train of thought again, to get back “into the zone” of the problem and solving it. Its another form of an interruption while you are trying to concentrate, and can interrupt an ‘Eureka!’ moment in problem solving.
It truly sucks having to work the extra hours, and if the project management is so bad that you’re doing it all the time, then you need to find other work, but sometimes, ‘sticking it out’ is the solution to the problem, finishing what you started.
Having said that, if I’ve pushed through the fatigue multiple times in multiple hours, so that its super hard to push again, THEN that would be the point where I walk away from the problem for the evening. Its not an either/or thing, but its definately stick around and try to solve longer than the advice I’m replying to would suggest.
One last thing. The above advice was given by someone who spent most of their career self-employeed and working an hourly rate. You’re expected to solve the problems others can’t because you’re getting paid more, and your time is compensated accordingly to the amount of work you are putting in. If you are a salaried employee, especially one who is low paid, I would then advise you to consider other things than strict professionalism, like QoL issues vs compensation gained, etc.
I’ve had plenty of breakthroughs at 9PM, but most of those could have been gotten at 11AM the next day without neglecting my family.
Writing notes for yourself is useful as a form of “rubber duck debugging”.
I’ve had plenty of breakthroughs at 9PM, but most of those could have been gotten at 11AM the next day without neglecting my family.
You’re a better coder than I am/was then. Everytime, without fail, if I took that break at 9pm, left work, and came back the next day, I never solved that problem.
You come into the office the next day and you have more/new problems to solve on top of the one you were trying to solve the night before, and you have to try to get back ‘into the zone’ of the problem solving for that one single problem (especially when you’ve had to do a bunch of configurations to your IDE for the last-night problem being worked on), very problematic to do when the office is busy.
Speaking of, forgot to mention that point, but working late usually gives you a quieter office environment to work in. Its always why I would try to start work at 10am (or later) on any project I was one, give me an hour or three of "quiet’ at the end of the day to wrap up work uninterrupted.
The trick is leaving good notes to yourself outlining the thought process, what was tried, what should be tried next.
Then you read your notes in the morning with a fresh mind and <click!>
If you just slam the laptop shut in frustration, you lose all progress.
For me what generally happens if I stop at 9PM, I will work through the problem in my sleep (and it will prevent me from getting a good night sleep), but I will often find a breakthrough the next morning during shower time.
I’m talking about those hard, multi-days debugging problems that nobody can figure out, but as someone else raised, that’s why I get paid good money for it.
It still sucks though. That first response in the thread rings so true, ok now I get it, no you don’t…
Generally speaking (NOT 100% of the time), that takes more time that you don’t have, as you’re outrunning fatigue. You can waste time writing down notes (which you’re supposed to do anyway in-line in the code as you go streamlined like), or you can solve the problem. Plus the quality of the notes you leave, if written up at the end when you’re ready to leave work, may not be good enough to help the next day. /shrug
But honestly, if that works for you, more power to ya! 🙂
I take notes as I work in case I get pulled onto another task.
Doesn’t take more than 5 minutes to summarize at the end of the day.
Doesn’t take more than 5 minutes to summarize at the end of the day.
I take notes in-line as I go too. But having to stop and then write (well, type in a text editor) everything I was thinking about for the last X hours, when I’m super fatigued, can be problematic for me to do. At the point I quit, I’m not really thinking anymore, even just to summarize the day.
You might have adhd
Get you, you part timer. /s
And the official solution to this problem in the documentation is a library deprecated four versions of the framework and/or programming language ago.
At 11:00 in the evening, there are two options for what they’re dealing with. Either:
- They have made precisely no headway whatsoever in actually solving the bug, or
- They have fixed the bug, but the debugging made them go “—wait, how did that ever work in the first place?!”
If it’s #1, odds are pretty good that there’s a random debug step they put in at 9:08 in the morning that’s screwing everything up now. If it’s #2, odds are pretty good that it actually didn’t work before, and now they’ve got to go back through the last six months of data and rectify it to fix that bug.
This is why I take a late lunch every day. Every standup I’m like “I’ll wrap up this small issue from yesterday, then move on to something bigger…”
Usually the “small issue” is finally done around 4 PM.
The rules to remember when this is happening but before it gets that bad:
- remember your own advice
- have you tried turning it off and on again?
- have you explained the issue to the ducky?
- have you eaten?
Rule 1 is the hardest tho
Is Docker caching some file you need instead of the changes applying? Raaaage!
Ahhh just entering the phase where the bug is fixed, but everything else is broken.
The stage where you just have to refactor the entire app just a little bit.
I’ve had this experience and morning was like, “I’m gonna plan the trip of a lifetime to London and Paris and maybe Rome for a month or more.”
Then in the evening I’m like, “well Vegas is a cheap flight, so if I spend a night in Vegas maybe I can go to Denver too?”
Usually it’s just one character that’s wrong
Bonus points if it’s failing because you spelled it right and the preexisting is misspelled.
Extra bonus points if both the correct and misspelt ones are both used but in similar but different ways
Just looking at that workspace makes my neck hurt.
I’ve had security incidents that go like this too.
…like more than a few.
That’s me right now. Just recently sent an issue report to Proton over the fact I have not been able to connect to their servers on my Linux running laptop for almost a week at this point and have given up on trying to self-disgnose and fix it on my own using what little skills I have and whatever information I could find through web searches. The worst part is how it effortlessly works perfectly on my desktop running windows 10.
