- cross-posted to:
- gardening@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- gardening@hexbear.net
TL;DR: apparently the management at my apartment complex considers plants to be “Seasonal decoration.” Here’s the email chain:
My landlord: You are in violation of your lease with the condition of your patio/deck area. The only thing allowed on your porch is patio furniture. Correct the issues shown in the attachment ASAP! If you have any questions please contact the property Manager M-F 9 am – 5 pm.
Thank You from our office staff and maintenance team! [Attached photo: My balcony seen from below, showing my one plant.]
Me: I’ve just re-read my lease agreement and could not find the clause you are referring to. The closest thing I could find is this, from the Community Rules Addendum, Use of Unit and Common Areas:
“3. It is the Tenant’s responsibility to keep balconies and patios in a clean and orderly condition. Storing of cartons, garbage, boxes, appliances, or other visually objectionable items on the patio or balcony is prohibited. Clotheslines or clothes hanging over balconies are not permitted. Hanging clothes and towels out to dry or use of the patio or balcony as a general storage area is not permitted. Seasonal and holiday decorations are not allowed without prior written permission from Landlord. If allowed, seasonal and holiday decorations must be reasonable, must not interfere with or disturb other tenants’ quiet enjoyment of the Community, and must be promptly removed within a reasonable time after the holiday, not to exceed 14 days or as otherwise directed by Landlord. Grilling or barbecuing is not permitted on balconies or patios.”
It does NOT say “The only thing allowed on your porch is patio furniture,” nor does it make any mention of prohibiting plants. If you are referring to another clause, please let me know.
My landlord: While there is no direct mention of potted plants, they fall under the category of seasonal and holiday decoration.
Potted plants are considered seasonal items not currently permitted by the property manager. If you would like to, you may stop by our leasing office during the week to speak with the property manager regarding the use of unit and common areas.
Me: Plants are not “seasonal and holiday decoration.” They are plants. They do not get put away for the winter, they do not celebrate a holiday, they just sit there. All year long. If potted plants are not permitted, then the lease agreement needs to be rewritten to reflect that. The lease which I signed does not prohibit potted plants.
My landlord: If you have any comments or concerns regarding use of unit common areas, please stop by our leasing office to speak directly with our property manager.
Me: If you have any further concerns, please contact me via email. Otherwise, I consider this matter resolved.
Thank you for your understanding
(That last email was sent after closing time. I guess I’ll find out tomorrow how that goes over.)
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One time, the apartment complex I was living at said I was violating my lease for keeping a storage container on my balcony. It was a small, zip up greenhouse with plants in it, which they allowed. When I confronted them about it, they admitted that they only observed it from the ground (I was on the 3rd floor) and that it was fine after all. That “violation” still appears on my rental history today, as the next apartment I rented asked me to explain why there was a violation on my file. Fuck this system.
Wait, there’s a permanent record? WTF, this is news to me.
A lot of properties are modernizing now and using software/systems that has history they can pass on to other complexes when they are called for references.
It’s part of the reason I left my old job as a technician. They were wanting me to install an app on my personal cell phone that would gps track me when I was on a work order and when pictures were taken for work orders. Not to mention they were using paycor and required gps tracking on when using it to clock in/out. When I started there we had paper time cards and carbon copy work orders.
Soulless corporations they are. Nickel and dime you to death.
Sorry, bit of a rant but stay away at any cost.
Yeah, at that point they should issue you a work phone.
I would refuse and demand they issue me a work phone. I’m not installing that kind of spyware on my personal device.
Definitely. Suck my dick you soulless fucking organization
Which is the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. They refused. Threatened me with discipline. I was already being paid shit for the work I was doing and was expected to do more. They even threatened my boss because I refused to install any apps. They were out to make an example of me because my position was a hold out from the “old ways”.
They were doing something with glassdoor as well because I attempted to report how much I made on there and I’m guessing they didn’t like the way it made them look so they had my review taken down. “Spam post as salary is not within market range for position.” I was 100% honest in the pay I posted. (Plot twist: It was well below market range. Surprising, I know.)
I wonder if being fired because you wouldn’t install work software on a personal phone, and they wouldn’t provide a work phone, would count as a constructive dismissal
They refused to provide anyone a work phone.
EDIT: To clarify. I was not the only one unhappy about all this. There was a group of the groundskeepers from other properties that were putting up a fight as well because none of their work required work orders, but were still required to install the software.
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Apparently so. I was quite surprised by that as well. I imagine it’s a service or something that large property management companies use, which seems rather intrusive to me. My experience after renting 6 different apartments in the US across 3 different states is that there are too few protections and options for recourse for tenants. I am a good tenant, in my opinion. I pay my rent on time and do not draw any complaints from my neighbors.
I am currently living in an apartment in Indiana, where I was recently without working plumbing for 5 days. As far as I can tell, there is no way for me to recoup related costs or break the release without involving a lawyer. I reported the details to the city health department, which is as close as I can get to getting the incident on the “permanent record” of the property management company.
All big service companies are doing this, airlines, hotels, insurance, rental, car rental. They have a big database that they all input into.
I was (temp) barred from renting a car in 2005 because they said I stole a rental. I went back after them to prove it and they did a bit of digging. It was in Illinois, a state I have never been too… Oh and he was black and I’m glow in the dark Irish. If I hadn’t pressed it they were fine w/ denying me.
Also got grabbed by the Michigan Sate Police over the same matter, but they figured it out pretty quick compared to the rental car company. No cuffs or jail, just a 15 minute wait and the trooper apologizing and we had a laugh over it.
So add another to the list rental properties.
No, there isn’t. Why would a landlord help other landlords? They’re competition.
My fellow Lemmy-ite, let me introduce you to the concept of corporate collusion:
https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/fight-is-control-realpage-antitrust-litigation-2023-01-10/
Here is a recent and ongoing example of how software services can be used (allegedly) by property management companies to avoid competition for the benefit of all (property management companies).
Because all landlords are corporate entities.
I’m landlord. I’m a single person who owns property. I directly own the properties. I do not use any software to track tenants across properties. I don’t need to. I know within 5 minutes of meeting them whether or not they will be a pain in my ass.
When do I get gifted a corporation?
You’re right, not all landlords - you are not the problem, large corporate landlords are the problem. Don’t all landlords get gifted a corporation after their first 90 days or something?
😂
Landlord is wrong and clearly doesn’t have a leg to stand on, which is why they are so pathetically resorting to calling your plant “seasonal or holiday decoration”. They are also a joyless knuckle-dragging shithead.
Agreed.
That is moronic. If they can ban all-year potted plants as ‘seasonal decorations’ then words have no meaning and they can literally call anything ‘seasonal decorations’.
Stand your ground, or they might be back to tell you your TV, fridge and toilet are seasonal decorations too.
Plants are “seasonal & holiday”?
Someone please notify Earth to put away it’s “seasonal & holiday” decor.
FFSDunno… the current heatwave is doing a good job of putting all the living things away.
Your landlord is a piece of work! You handled it brilliantly, though. Anytime there is a building-wide notice with anything legal cited, I look it up; every damn time they are twisting some existing bylaw to try to control tenants.
Long live your plant! They look very happy and healthy :)
I think I already know the answer to this, but wtf is it about landlords never wanting to discuss things through email? Or text?
After my landlord continued to say “let’s discuss this in person” I finally just said “no, I would like a record of the conversation, thanks.” The noise complaint I initially contacted them about has never been solved a year later and I still live with the neighbors stomping day in and out. They wanted “proof,” I sent them multiple videos with audio. They wanted me to call maintenance, I called maintenance - because the landlord insisted it was something in the pipes (?) When I discussed it with maintenance, they said they knew it wasn’t. Nothing changed after they came, (they just looked at some kind of vent on the roof) but the landlord seemed satisfied that they’d tried, even though it did nothing. The landlord had been trying to go around the maintenance work order form online and have them call me instead. I filled out a form anyway.
I didn’t mean to go on a rant, it’s just so frustrating when you know that they know that they’re in the wrong, but there’s nothing you can do except take as many notes as possible in case it gets bad later on.
Good luck, I hope your plant prevails.
wtf is it about landlords never wanting to discuss things through email? Or text?
So there’s no written record in case they say/ask for something that’s not legal.
Or records of your demands, like in your case.
If you put it in writing, it can be used against you later.
Apartment complexes can be so shit sometimes. What a dumb fucking thing to complain about.
UPDATE: 24 hours after my last email to the landlord, and still no response. Not as satisfying as an acknowledgement that they were wrong (or maybe even… an apology?) but I’m pretty sure that means I’m in the clear, and the plant is safe.
That’s encouraging. Hopefully they’ll give it up. It’s ridiculous that anyone pursued this in the first place.
If you need more fodder for a future response, you could break down both “seasonal and holiday decorations”.
List the common/popular seasons/holidays where decorations are brought out, before or after having described your plant. For example:
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my plant is not a Valentine’s Day card
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my plant is not an Easter egg, or made of chocolate
-
my plant is not a firework
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my plant is not a somber meditation of the lives of our troops lost in battle
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my plant is not a Halloween decoration
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my plant is not a turkey dinner
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my plant is not a Christmas ornament, nor is it a Christmas tree
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my plant is not a large, illuminated ball, sliding down a pole between 11:59pm Dec 31 and 12:00am Jan 1, not is it a party hat or party favor
-
etc
I’m sure you could throw together a much better list than the one above :)
That said, I would bring a second plant out and dress it up for every holiday, including the random federal ones like Presidents day.
Thats my seasonal plant. I change his outfit through the year.
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You call it “seasonal decorations”, I call it “furniture” since it makes the patio suitable and comfortable to be out on.
“These are my seasonal summer, autumn, winter, and spring plants. I promise to remove them within a reasonable time, once those seasons are over.”
Sounds like a fucking nightmare to live there sincerely
Ignore it. They tried this bullshit with me back when I rented. Told them to go fuck themselves and that I won’t remove it. That was the end of it.
I’d be getting ready ti move at the end of my lease if I were you.
I know it sucks but the power imbalance that exists between management and you is so big that this interaction is gonna make for a potentially bad time at renewal.
Yes. And don’t expect to get your deposit back. Hired professional cleaners at an apartment with landlords like this one, they still kept the deposit because we accidentally left $300 of brand new cookware behind, which they stole along with my deposit. Also remember to leave a review when you move
My old apartment complex tried to do something similar. We had the carpets deep cleaned the day before the end of our lease.
They straight up told me they were charging me because their maintenance came in after we moved to do some work and it was their policy to have it cleaned again from the mess that THEIR maintenance people left and charge us.
I told them that they had just admitted to fraud, as they were trying to charge us for a problem that they caused after our lease had already expired.
I got my deposit back.
Ya, I got hit with a $100 fee because I didn’t replace the specialty lightbulb above the stove that burnt out 4 years ago.
Your reply was spot-on. In what world are plants considered “seasonal and holiday decoration”?
I hate overbearing landlords and HOAs like these, what miserable people. As long as it’s not a hazard or obnoxious who gives a crap? On a plant-related note, my parents once got a written notice because they were planting flowers and had a bag of soil under the bench on their front porch. It couldn’t have been there more than a few hours but apparently it was too much of an eyesore for the community. 🙄
I hope they leave you alone after this.
