Thanks everyone that helped!! I’ll be trying to individually PM each of you, but it’s kinda hard to check each pixel so i’m probably waiting for logs. Very much appreciate it, so, so, so, soooo much.

https://canvas.fediverse.events/#x=555&y=276&zoom=9&tu=https%3A%2F%2Flemmy.world%2Fpictrs%2Fimage%2Fa3f0c0c0-8904-4563-99fc-35c163614807.png&tw=60&tx=500&ty=247&ts=ONE_TO_ONE

Would appreciate help working on the Hong Kong black bauhinia flag!!

Oh hey, I recognise you from previous lemmy.world football communities! We’re doing the Arsenal badge over at lemmy.world/c/gunners if you want to help get some sports rep in

cat tax!!

Using the website on my mac, on chrome. Weird.

Did tagging people break with the update? When I type @ nothing shows up.

WOOOO

Unbroken ampersands? hallelujah

This feels very clickbait lol, thought we somehow knew it was about to go off in a human timescale instead of an astronomical one

The June 4th Tiananmen Square vigil, though banned since COVID and the NSL, was a HK tradition (and elsewhere of course, though most significantly in HK) that would be good to replicate here.

Hey now, give Nixon the credit he deserves for also making things worse.

lol there are studies on it done for Russia, Ukraine, UK, Dutch UN troops who intervened in Srebrenica…

Ukraine has been defending itself. Dutchbat we’re trying and failing to maintain peace and instead watched as a massacre happened.

Yes, the US has more statistics, as it often does for psychology because many people don’t treat it seriously. That doesn’t mean the problem doesn’t exist.

PTSD is a real thing. Trauma is a real thing. Yes, we are much too desensitised to war. Yes, we should absolutely be outraged and we need to recognise that warfare is terrible. That doesn’t mean that access to traumatisation should be easy. Look at suicide rates of veterans, for example. Trauma is a real thing, and there’s a reason there is so much research dedicated to protecting journalists etc. who have to look at this stuff so they can tell us the truth.

First of all, I am from Hong Kong and utterly hate the CCP and tankies. It’s frankly insulting that you would compare me to them when they consistently fight for the complete eradication of the Hong Kong identity.

But more importantly, there’s a line to be drawn there. I agree that it is important to be informed — but you don’t need Israel tweeting photos of dead babies onto everyone’s Twitter feeds and traumatising people to be informed that babies died. You don’t need to personally witness every single gory detail of humanity’s terrible sins in order to know that things have happened. That’s what people do as a job in journalism, and they have lots of protection to make sure they’re not traumatised by it. The average Lemming doesn’t need to see that.

Not really tbh. We don’t need to personally see that stuff — it can cause lasting trauma. Knowing it exists and who did it is enough for war reporting.

Tired of arguing with someone who clearly doesn’t want to respect me, but I will point out how hilarious that someone first says they lived under (or in, as they seem to prefer) China for 23 years and then claims to be Canadian, treating it like a “gotcha”.

remained* My typo, apologies. Hong Kong had much stricter policies on Covid for a long time compared to even mainland China.

Yes, most of the ones who fucked up in China were removed. That’s a good thing. None of them who fucked up in Hong Kong were or are ever removed. And yes, it is the Hong Kong government — but who appoints them? Who extremely recently reformed the system such that even less say is given to Hong Kongers on who govern them? 人大.

Yes, the fire was in Urumqi. However, the protests were nationwide, and China reacted in a month’s time. Hong Kong protested for years peacefully and were treated to arrests and nothing more. 2014. 2019, before June 12. Every July 1st since the handover. A fifth of the population went on the streets on June 9, and the government tried to force the bill through. Then afterwards, a quarter of the population went on the streets to protest again on June 16th. Nothing. I wonder why there’s violence. Or would you like to suggest that Palestinian resistance, South African anti-apartheid resistance, American Civil Rights resistance, etc. are justifiably responded to with extreme levels of force? The majority of Hong Kong “violent” protests pale in comparison both to those, and to the government’s response. Or is shooting an unarmed teenage protestor and then arresting him and sentencing him to jail for years justice? Not to mention the crackdown on pan-dem politicians who have done nothing of the sort? Or arresting and attacking medics, or using ambulances to transport police?

In addition, of course, are very convenient “suicides” like a 15 year old swimmer randomly drowning after being found naked and ASAP cremation, a protestor randomly falling from a building that police operated at not long ago… or the literal triads they released at Yuen Long, or the police themselves attacking bystanders and planting evidence on the MTR on 831… and even several different cases of covered-up rapes widely reported by journalists whose newspapers were forced to close. If the Chinese government is not either complicit or approving, surely any reasonable government would step in immediately to tell Carrie Lam to change course? Instead, they promoted John Lee and Chris Tang, Secretary for Security and Commissioner of Police, to Chief Executive and Secretary for Security, a clear stamp of approval for any future protests.

Oh and regarding the PLA, (which by the way, any reasonable person would know that police and armies are separate entities, and besides the garrison is the PLA, even if there are PAP in there) there is a lot of evidence out there suggesting that they were involved. Anti-riot HK police gear found at the garrison, unmarked vans traced back to them, and even more obviously segments of the police consistently using Mandarin to communicate — unless you intend to suggest that policemen would use their third language to communicate otherwise?

Also, the actions at consulates such as that in Manchester. Attacking and attempted kidnapping of protestors in a foreign country. Only recalling after 2 months, and not allowing prosecution, while never once denouncing the actions, and in fact denouncing the protestors, who were doing so peacefully? Including from the Consul General himself? And setting up police stations in other countries without the permission of said countries, thereby violating sovereignty, and violating international law with the Sino-British Joint Declaration, and putting a bounty on the heads of people who have done nothing except lobby their governments. Even Israel isn’t this much of a bully.

Speaking of that autonomy: Beijing has said that the entire constitution of Hong Kong is only as valid as the laws it makes with the National Security Law being equal to the Basic Law, thereby bypassing and ignoring its illegitimacy. Might I remind you that the NSL did not pass LegCo, as is required by law. Legislation which did not go through the legislative body. What is the point of a supposedly autonomous legislative body if such a body can be bypassed whenever convenient for the state? And for the autonomy in East Turkestan, what use is autonomy when the people there are being ethnically cleansed, and Han Chinese are being migrated there in much the same way as Israeli settlers, or indeed most settler colonial movements? There is a well-documented genocide there, which the Chinese government continues to deny. I’m not even going into Tibet.

In summary I absolutely agree! Hong Kong’s government is much, much worse than the national government. They have literally concluded that boobs can be used as a weapon of assault, which I believe even the CCP wouldn’t stoop to, for example. That does not excuse the national government for what it has done to not only encourage but incite such behaviour from them. If Israeli settlers conduct violence, or the IDF, the responsibility lies on Bibi’s fascist government. Most of the West takes responsibility for its previous crimes, including most notably the Holocaust. How is it different, then, for China? If China doesn’t approve of the actions Hong Kong has done, why have they not only helped them but provided the tools specifically to allow them in the National Security Law? Why does it continue treating non-mainland non-Han peoples as second-class citizens? And if the CCP is good, why does it conduct genocide in Uyghurstan? Why does it bully people protesting peacefully who aren’t even living there — setting bounties, dragging them into consulate grounds to beat them up, arresting their families in Hong Kong, and more? I can go on and on and on.

One last question for you as a person, not as a political point, but as a person. Why do you consistently insist on ad hominem attacks? Why do you think I don’t know as much as you just because I disagree with you? I’ve lived through protests at scales China hasn’t seen since Tiananmen, which your government still covers up. Perhaps you should ponder why such movements can reach such scales so consistently in Hong Kong, despite leaders constantly being arrested, despite changes made specifically to counter them, despite the sheer power imbalance, instead of assuming anyone who disagrees with you is immediately wrong.

Firstly, I never said that I know everything about anything. Anyone who does say that is either lying, or God. Secondly, I have no idea what you know. Thirdly, I picked “under” because China consistently treats Hong Kong and her citizens as second-class citizens. Not as bad as in East Turkestan, but certainly below the likes of Beijing, Shanghai etc. Look at the difference in response between sentencing of peaceful protestors, response to said peaceful protests (notably the Urumqi protests, where the CCP acquiesced to a much smaller group of protestors’ demands in contrast with Hong Kong where the CCP continues to not even move an inch), and how Hong Kong’s Covid policies remains even when China’s were removed.

Most of them have never spent time living under China / USSR as well lol. I’d like communism in theory, and I still think there’s a possibility of it, but even just in Hong Kong the flaws of the CCP system of “socialism with Chinese characteristics” are very evident — and that’s barely with any of the actual communism in Hong Kong.

Well Godot is FOSS, so it can just be forked if they do